Listen To My Latest Podcast Episode:

3 Reasons Why Those Guest Appearances Aren't Getting You New Leads - Ep #86

What do you do when podcast interviews and other visibility efforts just aren’t driving leads?

You might wonder if you’re doing something wrong, or wonder if all that time and energy is actually paying off?  Maybe you’ve considered that podcasting or being a guest on other platforms doesn't work for your business...

Today, I answer these questions head on and share the three specific reasons that I see business owners get stuck and share the shifts to approach visibility and guess speaking in a way that actually drives results for your business. 

In this episode we’ll dive into…

  • The top visibility missteps that derail your visibility efforts driving leads
  • actionable tips to implement to be more magnetic with your voice online
  • real-life scenarios/examples so you can put this into practice for your business

Subscribe to Heather’s YouTube Channel here.


LISTEN to the AUDIO of this episode:



Why You Should Create a New Vision Board NOW with Chant'l Martin - Ep #84


HEY! Are you an online entrepreneur ready to nail your message on podcasts, live streams and other virtual stages? Join me on my FREE training: How to Fill Your Programs Through Speaking WITHOUT Needing a Big Audience or Second Guessing What You Say



Full Episode Transcript


Hi, friends, welcome back to another episode of The Heather Sager Show. It's your speaking coach, Heather, and today we're going to talk about a question that I get a lot when people are talking about the concept of visibility, and that's the predicament, I'm doing the guest speaking, I'm showing up on podcasts, like a lot of podcasts but they're not actually resulting in revenue and leads for my business. What am I doing wrong? I think this is one of those things that people don't talk about. You know, there's a lot of Facebook groups where you can find a guest and be a guest, and you see all these people guesting on each other's shows and then you have to ask the question is all of this time and energy actually paying off? Is it actually creating tangible results in your business, but you have to be a little bit careful around this because when it comes to visibility, when it comes to PR, it's not a quick hit where you do a podcast interview and it's ultimately going to or instantly going to create leads today for your business. 


Now, typically, there's a process, you record the interview and then it gets aired weeks if not months later and then from there, it might take some time. But the good thing about a podcast interview is it's evergreen where people who discover that podcast will listen to prior episodes and you can promote podcasts that you've been on to your audience, attracting kind of people to that episode to hear more about your expertise. It can live on over time but it's not going to have an immediate payoff in your business. But it's kind of like, I'm not a farmer and I'm not a gardener but there's a whole like harvesting crop situation where you have to work the dirt far in advance and take care of things and then plant in water and sunshine and so I don't know. That's the term right? It takes time before you actually see the fruit bloom or the vegetables come to bloom. We do grow tomatoes at my house so maybe I'm a little bit of a gardener, but everything else dies. My analogy is going down. The crop are here, but what I want you to think about when it comes to visibility, you should expect it's not going to be that quick cash injection. However, the more that you do, you'll start noticing those blossoms, if you will. They'll start paying off down the road. But the question is, if you are already doing podcast interviews, if you already are showing up on different platforms, and you're still not getting leads, well, why? What are we doing wrong? Are we doing something wrong? Or is it just that podcasting or guesting doesn't work for my business? 


Well, today I'm going to dive into three specific reasons that I see business owners for the reason why they're not performing. There are some mistakes that they're making and some shifts we need to make so that we can approach visibility and guess speaking in a way that actually drives results for our business. Let's dive into those. 



Reason #1 - Non- aligned Audience

You focused on podcasts that are not aligned with your audiences.


Number one, the mistake that I see happening is that we're focused on podcasts that are not aligned with audiences. Let me clarify what I mean by this. I mentioned before that you see a lot of people asking for guests in Facebook groups and I mean dozens of comments of people rushing in. I'll be a guest. I'll be a guest And then you'll see the comments of going, what are you looking for? Who is your audience? These are questions that you should always be asking before you commit to showing up on someone's stage. You want to know who's the audience, you also want to know, what's the topic, who's the show, who's the host because as a guest on someone else's platform, you are aligning your brand with theirs. You want to make sure that you do a little gut checking to make sure this is the platform that you want to have your name on. I think that's really, really important, especially the conversations that are happening online over the last 12 months. We want to make sure that we are value aligned with the businesses and the podcasts that we guest on. I think that's really, really important. 

You should be value aligned with the businesses and the podcasts that you guest on.


But coming back to the audience piece, here's what we have to factor in. It's not just demographic check-the-box information. You have to make sure that it's the right kind of audience who is going to not only benefit from your message but align in the types of things that you serve in your paid products. Follow me here. Let me give you an example of this. For me, I teach people how to become better speakers so they can more effectively talk about their business and then grow their online business. Specifically, I work with course creators, service providers and coaches who have online products and programs. That is my niche, as they call it. Now, it doesn't mean those are the only people that are in my program or the only people I work with. That's my main, marketing term, that's the cash cow. That's the main part of my business. That's who I serve primarily inside of Speak up to Level Up. 

In making sure you're serving the right kind of audience... 

When I'm thinking about guest speaking opportunities, I'll give you an example of this. I'm not going to be looking for shows that serve, say, photographers or serve accountants or copywriters. Now, no, technically, those are all service providers and technically I have photographers, accountants, and copywriters, and lawyers, all inside my program. But here's the thing. The difference on who I serve is the through line is that they aspire or have digital products, aspire to have or currently have digital products. Whether that's a coaching product, it's a digital course, it's one of those little tiny products that you sell in a PDF, whatever that looks like. The through line for my audience is they are taking their businesses online. That's the thing. If I were to go on a podcast that was specific to photographers, to accountants, to what did I say, bookkeepers, to copywriters, if I was just looking at that, I don't know that I'm going to be in front of the right audience because I don't know that those people want to be serving the online thing. And quite frankly, it's going to be an uphill battle for me to convince them that not only do they need to speak persuasively, but to speak persuasively to help grow their business. That's going to be a big ask, like I'm asking them to make a far bigger leap than needed. Now I can still serve, I can still get experienced, I can still show up and be highly valuable but I need to lower my expectation around what's going to happen as a direct result of that interview. 

Be more intentional with your yes.


So I want you thinking about this, when you're choosing who you say yes to and which stages you pursue, I want you to be a little bit more intentional and dare I say it a little more choosy, not an egotistical way that you're too good to speak on some of the stages but I want you to know that you can say no. You do not have to say yes to every request that comes into your DMs or in your inbox asking you to be on the show. I will tell you, ego-wise, it feels good. It feels good for people to ask you. But at some point in time, you're going to have to make some decisions around where and how you choose to spend your time. You need to make sure that whenever you do show up, you have it aligned if your goal is to grow your audience. 

Now, let me caveat this. If your goal is to get experience on stages, you can be a little more loosey-goosey with your audience and actually test out your messaging on different kinds of stages, different kinds of platforms, different audiences, right? Test that out a bit. But if you're specifically looking to do visibility opportunities to grow your business, if you are wanting those opportunities to drive leads to then to drive sales, well, then we need to line up the ducks and get a little bit more strategic which by the way I talk about the strategy, I talked about lining up and choosing the right strategy and choosing the right message, I have that right now. 

If you go to the show notes where this video or audio is, there's a link to my free training where it actually walks you through those strategies and helps you choose which ones appropriate for the state of business you're in right now and how to start moving the dial to be more effective doing what we're talking about today. Okay, that's reason number one why so many people find a wo-wo moment after guesting is because they might not even be in front of the right audiences. Maybe just a slight shift to ensure that they have the right people in the room which might require asking some questions. It doesn't mean that every audience is going to be a slam dunk is gonna be right on target, but you want to be asking questions so that you are clear who you're speaking to. It also allows you to cater your message a little bit when you're on the interview or on the platform. 


Reason #2: Wrong Kind of Message

Acknowledge and honor the skill set of the people that you serve.


Alright, reason number two, that your podcast interviews or other guest speaking might not be driving leads in your business is your message. Your message, and most likely, it's because there's a priority of information and tangible tips and tactics over education. Now we hear this phrase a lot of different ways. I hear people talking about stop overselling how-to content. Stop giving people the how-to and show them the what and the why. And it leaves us all thinking like, but what the hell are they talking about? So what do I say? But what do I talk about? When you say what versus I don't, it does not compute. Let's talk about this. So what we need to remember is, most likely, if you're in my audience you serve adults. You serve adults to some capacity and what we have to acknowledge is honoring the skill set of the people that we serve. Like you listen to this podcast, you're a badass. You know a lot. You've been through a lot. You are building a fricking business which is a feat. If I were to sit here and pretend that you know nothing and I am like this expert at all the things, it's just not gonna work very well. So you have to respect that your audience has a good level of knowledge coming in. You got to kind of anticipate and estimate a bit. You got to honor the skill set of them coming in but the value that most people find is not necessarily just tell me exactly what to do because they can find that on Google and YouTube, and they probably have, but still haven't done anything. 

Educate your audiences to help them think differently and come up with solutions on their own.


What we have to start thinking about is how do we educate our audiences to help them think about things differently, so that they can help come up with solutions on their own? Let me say that again. We want to educate our audiences to help them think about things in a new way so that they can start coming up with information and ideas on their own. I know this is a little different than we think about because we think that our audience wants us to tell them exactly what to do. But here's the thing, do you like being told what to do? When it comes to me, I am maybe a rogue maverick, whatever the term is in this way. When I take online courses, I have absolutely no intention of following anybody's recipe or formula to a tee because I have my own way of doing things. I'm smart, I have experience, I have a really specific thing that I'm building this business. Sometimes I'm clear on it. Sometimes I'm still figuring out but I know what I'm after. And for some stranger online, regardless of their level of success, for me to follow that to a tee blindly is incomplete out of alignment with how I operate and how I've been successful until this point. So if you're jiving with that, if you're like, yeah, I've been doing some good things, too. I have a brain, then stick with me on here. 


If you have a tendency to kind of just with things to get into something to learn the process, and then make it your own. Most entrepreneurs are like that which is why we don't want to work for someone else. Hear me loud and clear. Most entrepreneurs are like that. What you have to think about is, okay, so if I don't follow the exact step by step, but instead, view courses or trainings and other things as a toolkit to pull from, okay, wait, so then how might my audience when I'm speaking to them how might I think about things differently? 

Shift the way your audience thinks so they can ask better questions.

When you speak to an audience, you have to balance two things. You have to help them see the world in a new way, the world of your topic. You have to help them switch perspectives and see things in a new way, and you have to give them some tactical, tangible strategies because we all hate that crappy fluff when people just come at us with like, mindset, mindset, mindset but don't give us actually anything to do. You have to figure out how you educate by toggling those two things. Here's something that I wrote down that I wanted to read to you. Give the shift the way they think so they can ask better questions. It doesn't mean that you're going to turn it over for them to figure everything else out. 

In helping  your audience see the path to go from where they were to where they want to be

Let's say, okay, let's say I have one of my members inside the Speak Up to Level Up. Her name is Serena. She's a bookkeeper, accountant, CAA, all the things financially, brilliant business. She's got multiple businesses. She teaches bookkeepers, so people who used to work in corporate as accountants help them start their bookkeeping business. Serena knows that her audience is wicked smart. They've had successful careers but there is this leap that they're making in order for them to have the confidence to actually start their own bookkeeping business. As she thinks about that, what she has to do instead of just teaching them the okay, the first thing you're going to do is you have to actually set up your business. Now we have to think about how you find clients. There's a process that she takes people through in her program. But what Serena has to do when she's doing PR work, when she's doing visibility work, she has to step back and help them see that the path is possible and help them think like an entrepreneur, not as an employee. So when she talks about accounting things, when she talks about the process for being successful in business, she has to be thinking and talking about, what are some of the shifts they have to make in their thinking in order for them to see themselves in that position and for them to experience success? You track with me, right? 

When you think about this, when you think about your industry, your niche, your area of expertise, what are some of the shifts that people have to make in their thinking in order to go from where they were to where they want to be? This is what we eat for breakfast inside Speak Up to Level Up. These are the conversations we're having all the time because humans are complex. We have interesting little struggles in our brains. We're thinking of things all the time. These are messages that we have to learn how to master. But this is the kind of language you would use when you're guesting paired and peppered with really good tactics and tips and strategies. But that's how your content becomes a magnet versus an informational vomit on people where they just pick up what they want and keep moving. That's kind of gross now that I think about what I just said, but you follow what I'm saying, right? I think we just spill our information over people and then be like, don't you want to follow me? No, you just gave them all these things that they have to go do and think about and implement. You just gave them a laundry list of things like give them a hot minute to go do that, then they might come back to you. No, we need to equip people with some tangible things to do while elevating their thinking because if we help them build their confidence in how they see themselves and how they see their future, they flock to you like a fricking magnet. Hence, very meta. I do this with you every single week. I'm constantly provoking your thinking. I'm constantly telling you some ways. I'm asking you questions. I'm giving you different frames to think about things while peppering in strategies and tactics that you can actually use. These are the kinds of things, these are the reasons why a lot of people, I'm not gonna say fail, but they fall short of their goals for visibility. One, they didn't set visibility goals in the first place. Two, they're coming out with the wrong kind of message. 


Reason #3: Lack of clear sales path

Be clear of what's the next step you want the audience to take with you. 


Reason number three that I see many online entrepreneurs not follow through with leads when it comes to guest speaking. Here we go. This one is it's a little bit of a different path than you might be expecting from me, but hear me out. The reason number three, there is a lack of sales mechanism. They're lacking a clear sales process. Okay, so imagine this. Somebody sees you on a podcast episode and you say, and at the end of the couple of questions. So Heather, how can people learn more about you? And you're like, oh, thank you so much. Alright, so I have a free Facebook group. I am on Instagram, in all platforms. LinkedIn is super fun. I'm doing some stuff there lately. Oh, I just got on Clubhouse. I'm like hosting rooms every Tuesday. And oh, and I have this awesome checklist. If you interested what we talked about today, you can download the checklist at this link. I've already exhausted saying all this and you're probably already like yeah, I hear this all the time slash maybe I do it. Take all of that away and be clear of what's the next step you want the audience to take with you. Do you want them to go on a second date? Are you asking them to marry you? Probably not, not appropriate on podcasts. You got to figure out where you're taking your audience. Have a clear next step. 

Your CTA should be clear and tangible.


So let me give you a little bonus tip in here. Make it tangible and actionable. When you're on a podcast, make sure you have a very clear call to action and I do what I call the twofer. It's a double double whammy. I'll purchase one of two bays. So I'll go, hey, so if you love what we talked about today, if you are interested in being more strategic with your speaking, if you want to learn how you can actually use speaking to grow your online business and confidently nail your message on platforms like this and other kinds of guests ages, then the best place for you to go would be for my free training at heather sager.com/speak. That's where you're actually going to learn the exact process that I use that I teach inside my program Speak up to Level up to help you develop more magnetism when you speak and more strategy. Exactly, that's how I would say it. And hey, I love hanging out daily on Instagram. So if you want to talk about what you learn in class, if you want to ask any questions or if you want to tell me what you loved about today's episode or have any other questions, shoot me a DM. I love chatting with you. I'm all everyday on stories on Instagram @theheathersager. 

In figuring out where you’re taking your audience and directing them to the next step


What I do is I first direct them to my next step in our dating process. And then second, I give them a social channel divided in on. I would give the host the links to all my platforms so my website, my podcast, all those things. Ideally, we've already talked about me having a podcast throughout the episode and we drop that. But that call to action at the end, I'm specifically connecting the dots to my lead magnet, my driver, which for me is an automated webinar that I have which by the way if you haven't taken that, why not? If you're around here, you should have taken that webinar and see how I lead webinars, how you could be more effective in speaking, and of course, if Speak to Level Up is a great fit for you. Join us because it's like the coolest place on the internet so people are saying. What I want you to know is like, what's the next step that your audience has with you? 

Know what your customer journey is.

Now, here's the thing. I see a lot of people post freebies that they don't love so therefore when they talk about a freebie at the end of the podcast, they talk about it with a level of bland energy. There's no enthusiasm, therefore, of course, nobody's going to opt-in. You need to make sure you have something on podcasts that you were so ecstatic about and you need to make sure on the backend how do those convert eventually to sales? I think a lot of people are like, oh, get the freebie up, get the freebie and just get people in the freebie so let's do visibility, but they don't think about okay, so where does this actually take people? Do you have a lower ticket product that people eventually will buy in your funnel? Does this apply or is this direct people into booking a one on one call with you? You gonna think about if they opt in to the thing you talk about on the podcast or do the call to action that you ask, where does that take people? 


Sample CTA you can steal and use if you’re just starting out your business

You should know what your customer journey is. Before you go, but Heather I'm just getting started. If you're just getting started, your call to action on a podcast could be something as simple as hey, come ask me a question in DMS. Have a question that's way more valuable than I just said. Come tell me about your number one roadblock when it comes to speaking and let's troubleshoot that. I love to chat with people in the DMs. Come, send me a message or it could be hey, I have a checklist that I'd love to share with you. Drop into my DMs and tell me you heard about me today and I'll send you the link. Oh, that's another way that I do it a lot when I'm guest speaking is I actually tell people to reach out on the DMs and then there I send the link like to a bonus. That's so good. It works really, really well and then you start people in a conversation. 


But do not use the excuse of, but I don't have my funnel setup, or oh, I don't even know what a funnel is or I don't quite know yet. You need to think about what's the simplest way that you can get people to connect with you in a way where you can connect back. So via email or direct message, you can have an actual conversation to then guide people into whatever your sales mechanism is. Maybe you do one on ones. Okay. Don't worry about growing like a ginormous email list. You just need people talking to you. Have them email you and you can talk about a customized strategy to help them do X, Y and Z. Watch out, watch out. Here we go. Listen up, people. 

What I see happening a lot right now in the online space is people keep trying to model their marketing strategies off of businesses that are seven, eight figures, really big businesses that have audiences of tens of hundreds of thousands. Big audiences. If you're listening to this show, I bet your audience is not anywhere close to that so why are you trying to adopt a strategy that is so huge in scale, when you have the ability to actually communicate with people one on one. Think about that. You have such an opportunity right now to talk with your audience. You actually can hit reply when somebody sends you an email. You can actually type an email from Gmail, not from ConvertKit or Kajabi, or whatever it is that you use. You can send real emails to people. You can send real personalized videos. You can voice chat with people on Instagram. You have the ability right now to do that. Do not act as if you're that $10 million business and you don't have time for the little people. We don't have a business if we don't have time for our people. Every single person that enters your inbox, every person who enters your DMs, every new follower, every person who puts themselves in your orbit, they deserve your attention. 


So what I want you thinking about is how can we get off of our high horse of trying to be all big and fancy because of the vision boards and look into the future, which shout out we love the vision boards. That episode with Chant'l last week was so good, right? Go back and have the vision board. Live in the vision, but embody it by being the kind of person who is a person and talks with people. And oh my goodness, you will stand out. People love that. Connecting back through, when you do this when you're connected in front of the right audience when you have the right message, where you're educating people to make well-informed decisions, whether that's working with you or working with someone else, leave people better than you found them by equipping them with really good information and then make sure that you're confident how this all works together. It might not be like a Lego locked all the pieces fit right now, but you should have an idea of what's the trickle effect of how things flow together. 


If you're unhappy with the results you're getting from visibility or you're actually not putting yourself in play yet because you fear that what if you do and you actually don't get results, I want you to go back and relisten in today's episode because I just gave you like a mini masterclass here around some of the core essential elements for how you can show up and be more magnetic with your voice online. You have a big message to share, but you're keeping it inside right now and that's not serving anyone including yourself, right? Your message, don't be selfish with it. Don't hold it in because you're not quite sure how to get it out or how to say it the right way or whether or not people are going to like hate it. Brendon Burchard often says we're not afraid of failing, we're actually afraid of being seen as starting small. I think nothing could be truer. I think that in this industry, that's an industry of celebrity online, where you don't know who actually has a legitimate business and who's just a Instagram storyteller. There is this thing that comes when we're fearful of putting ourselves out there and not getting the results because we think everybody gets results who are the big players. Don't worry about any of that. Stop being scared to be seen as plain small and embrace that as one of your best assets. Talk to your people. Serve them well. Be intentional with your time. And that is how your efforts in marketing, your efforts of service, and showing up in more places. That is how you start building a sustainable business. 

I'm so so honored. It gets me emotional thinking about that. I'm so honored that you've chosen this podcast, this channel to be one of the influencers in your ear, one of the mentors in your ear to help you on that journey because I know there's a lot of people that you can learn from online. I've learned one thing over the last year that the fewer people that I lead in my ear, the stronger my business is because I have less distracted voices telling me where to go. Thank you for allowing me to be one of those people for you. Thank you for allowing me to push you, sometimes making you very uncomfortable. That's what coaching is. That's what we do around here. I'm just honored to be your speaking coach and be part of this journey with you. 


So if you like today's episode, if you have other peers in the online space that you think also has an incredible message and they would benefit from my tough but very warm-hearted love. Please share this episode with a friend. It would mean the world. We have some big numbers for sharing the podcast this year and it would mean the world to me. If you help me get my message out. I have a mission to help more entrepreneurs share their message with bravery and confidence because I think if more entrepreneurs felt comfortable sharing their message, we would make the world collectively a better place as cheesy as that sounds. But that's the mission I'm on and I'm here. I hope that you're here to help me with that as I help you.


Alright friends, thanks so much for tuning in today. Be sure to like, subscribe, do all the things in all the places and I will see you next week. Bye friends


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